One of the most frustrating parts of my experience as a former member/associate/victim of two Armstrong Church of God organizations (Worldwide and CGI) is the condescending attitude of friends and family members who still belong to one of the splinters. "You shouldn't put much stock in anything he has to say - he's been hurt!" "Everything he says is based on emotion!" "His experiences have made him bitter and clouded his objectivity!" or (my favorite) "He probably never was a real Christian anyway because he's gay!"
To me, that's like saying you shouldn't listen to what that Jew has to say about the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis) because he spent some time in a concentration camp. "His views are twisted by the suffering he endured there!" "He can't comment objectively on the party's policies and philosophies because he is bitter over what he experienced at the hands of some overzealous individuals!" "Just because some bad things happened to a few people, you can't condemn the whole organization!"
I call bullshit! If someone has had a bad experience with some organization, you may want to listen to what they have to say about it. OR Maybe not! Some of us would rather learn the hard way and go merrily on our way - after all, we do all have the right to decide for ourselves! Like I said, I call BULLSHIT! (or is that just more proof that I'm overly emotional about all of this?)
To me, that's like saying you shouldn't listen to what that Jew has to say about the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis) because he spent some time in a concentration camp. "His views are twisted by the suffering he endured there!" "He can't comment objectively on the party's policies and philosophies because he is bitter over what he experienced at the hands of some overzealous individuals!" "Just because some bad things happened to a few people, you can't condemn the whole organization!"
I call bullshit! If someone has had a bad experience with some organization, you may want to listen to what they have to say about it. OR Maybe not! Some of us would rather learn the hard way and go merrily on our way - after all, we do all have the right to decide for ourselves! Like I said, I call BULLSHIT! (or is that just more proof that I'm overly emotional about all of this?)
There seems to be a principle in Genesis 19 that a community is worth saving if there are a few admirable people. The light they offer might be enough to chase the darkness away perhaps? God was willing to spare the Dead Sea society if there were even 10 respectable people living in it, but there were not.
ReplyDeleteI knew many respectable people in WCG --- people who cared about others, respected them, accepted them, and took responsibility for them. Yet I cannot deny that the culture contained a lot of fear, which is the opposite of love. I haven’t reconciled that. Maybe because I haven’t thought about it enough, but whatever the reason, the variance between the group and individuals comprising it is a mystery to me for the moment.
To Gordon: Yes, Gordon, I agree. There were (and still are) good people in the COGs. Yes, the old WCG culture did contain a lot of fear. I believe that the WCG was correct in core doctrine (as I understand the scriptures) but spiritually, we were immature. Sadly, that immaturity has been expressed various times by the ministry since the 1995 WCG split, leading to more splits, as some seek power and control.
ReplyDeleteFrom my experience in UCG, I see a slow spiritual maturity happening. Perhaps it is this emerging spiritual maturity that is part of "whatever the reason" that is a mystery. It is not an abandonment of core doctrine - but a clearer, more mature understanding of the nature of God. We used to always say "law and grace" in WCG. No, WCG actually said LAW and grace. LAW was first and foremost in the fear element of the culture. But, many are now understanding that it is "grace and law" from a more mature spiritual paradigm - with grace first as the anchor of our relationship with God. Yes, we are to keep the spiritual intent of God's laws - but grace IS the foundation and the core that sustains our relationship and motivates us to keep the spirit intent of God's commandments.
To Lonnie: Yes, you have been hurt. And, yes are you reacting with emotion, which is understandable. I also have been hurt and others I know have been. Most of the people who hurt me did it in ignorance - and frankly, many of them are now dead. May God's mercy be extended to them - as I want it extended to me.
Why am I still with one of the COG fellowships (in my case, UCG)? Because, I'm looking beyond human flaws and "sins of the fathers" and focusing on core doctrine. Yes, the COG culture was often unkind towards gays and some people (not everyone) have even been bigoted. As we know, for many years, it was very difficult to be in fellowship
in WCG and other COGs, even though we tried hard to live "right" according to COG doctrines and teaching.
It is obvious from your ongoing commentary that you have been profoundly affected by the experiences you had in WCG and CGI. I understand that because so have I. I choose to stay with UCG because I believe the core doctrines. You seem to have concluded things differently and that is absolutely your right.
I wish you well.
Dean
Dean, I don't get how believing in a doctrine keeps you in a fellowship. Surely you want healthy relationships, and it would be such relationships that keep you in UCG. If you don't have some really good friends there, why bother? You can believe the doctrine without drinking the kool-aid.
DeleteHi Gordon,
DeleteI'm not clear what you mean about me "drinking the kool-aid" because I fellowship with UCG? I believe the people in the COG fellowships (as a whole, not everyone) are good folks wanting to and trying to follow God. I believe that they are God's people, so why would I choose isolation over fellowship with them?
Beside, how would fellowship with people who don't share the same beliefs promote healthy relationships? In spite of the flaws of the COG fellowships - the core doctrinal beliefs seem to me to be far better than the traditional message of Christianity. (COG Core doctrine: Now is not the only day of salvation... and most of mankind is ultimately saved. Mainstream Christianity core doctrine: Most of mankind is lost unless they accept Christ in this age.) If there are other fellowships outside of the COG group who hold these core doctrines - I don't know where they would be?
I won't try to minimize the pain and suffering that many people have endured in the COG fellowships - especially during WCG days. The harsh, condemning culture of the old WCG was cruel toward gays. But, as I said, many folks (at least in UCG) are coming to see the immaturity of our past - and are slowly moving forward... more clearly discerning the nature of God, and what grace and law (yes, grace first!) means spiritually.
I don't expect that UCG (or any COG fellowship) will ever change it's teaching about sex and sin: It'll always be marriage between one man and one woman. But the culture is not as harsh as it used to be in old WCG.
I do have some good friends in UCG. I'm even "out" to some of them. The people that I've shared with, have treated me with respect and kindness. (Of course, they expect me to live according to UCG teachings, which I try to do.)
I've even shared my life's story to a small UCG congregation in the American Midwest. I talked openly about how my life was in WCG and UCG and the need to go beyond "just condemning" and people listened and treated me with respect.
For the reasons stated above, I continue in fellowship with UCG.
Hope you're well.
Dean